Pavlov’s Dogs Episode 3 of 8

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About This Episode:

This scene is a perfect fit for Bo’s question below.

Our characters here, Marie and Paulo have decided to check out of the apocalypse. In the book they are going to use a razor blade instead of a knife as their check out tool but LEGO has no such thing. And with the mini-figs not having elbows it was a bit of a challenge to convey that a blade was going to be going for a wrist but I THINK I got the point across. I think the only way I could have gotten a blade to lay against her wrist was if I used a sword.

Discussion Question: From Bo

July 23rd’s discussion about “saving the last bullet for yourself” got me thinking about the guy with the empty rifle, Murphy, I think? Of the readers that are counting on a firearm to get them through the zombie apocalypse (and I know that you have a lot of juvenile readers, as well as foreign readers without ready access to weapons), what will they do for ammunition? Do they have firearms of common calibers (9mm NATO, .40 S&W, 5.56 NATO, 7.62×39, 7.62×51, etc.) like Murphy? Do they have sufficient stored ammunition? Are they counting on “scrounging” some? Will they hope to barter for it with other survivors? Will any of them keep an empty weapon, hoping to find ammunition later (like Murphy)? What about the weight? Is it worth it to pack a ten pound rifle, hoping later to come across a cache of .308/7.62 NATO?

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by D.L. Snell

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62 thoughts on “Pavlov’s Dogs Episode 3 of 8”

  1. in the question : anyo should probably be any, I think.

    As for an answer, I am not sure about most places, but the people in my general area have been stockpiling guns for quite a while (combination of hunting and crazed hillbillies), and most of them are constantly buying ammunition, even in these economic times.

    • fixed

  2. In my house we mostly have 9mm weapons, but we also have an AR-15, Mini-14, and a Micro Galil. I’d say we have nearly a 1000 rounds of 9mm, but only 180 worth of 5.56 and 300 of .223 Rem. We are a family of four and are all used to shooting guns(my dad and I more than my mother and sister), but can’t all handle the same weight. I might be able to carry around 14 pounds of ammunition, rifle and handgun. Clothes and other stuff might be around 5 pounds, making total 20 lbs. My sister won’t carry ammunition, but maybe a handgun. My dad might be able to carry same as me and my mom( mom likes bench pressing and dad has back problems, can’t carry too much weight.)

    In my home country (Honduras) we are not allowed to have 7.62×39, 7.62×51, .308, 30-30, or any other type of rifle ammunition of that sort, mostly because they passed a law about 8 years ago saying you can’t buy rifles no more( we have those rifles because we bought them before the law was passed.) and if you had a permit for a rifle you needed either a) sell it to the government or b) pay a tax to keep them. We like the idea of tax instead of selling them. The only type of ammo that the law let the government sell was .223 Rem. And still, the ammunition is hard to get by because the gun stores are all government owned. No private gun store exist, gunsmiths do but that is a different subject.

    • Forgot to add, I would keep a HANDGUN but not a rifle, unless I settle in a safe location. Mostly because rifles are heavier and handguns you only need a holster and you worry about it no more. I would not really think of suicide, but I’d rather take a shot in the head before getting munched to death any day of the week.

      • We have exactly 10 AR-15 Magazines, 4 Mini-14 ones, and 2 35-round magazines for the Galil. Honduras has a direct contract with IWI and imports Israeli made weapons only,the government changes contracts every 10-15 years. My dad said the best times were when they had a contract with FN Herstal.

        The Galil we have was a gift to my dad by an Ex-Coronel( don’t know if my Spanish betrayed me in the military rank) from Israel who is a good friend of ours and gave it to my Dad on his 40th birthday, it is from the older made Israel Military Industry.

        • I never get birthday presents like that… 🙁

          Scaring up extra magazines might be tough then.

        • Sort of.. Really they are just awfully expensive.

    • Bans on military calibers bug me (Mexico’s is similar- no common calibers outside the military. The police used to carry .38 Super because only the military was allowed .45 acp and 9mm NATO). Hell, gun control in general chaps my ass; but that’s another story for another time.

      It’s good to have family that will plan with you, to work out everyone’s role well ahead of time, and to explore strengths and weaknesses. Kudos.

      Handgun versus rifle is a hard choice, and likely situation dependent. If you have to go about your day-to-day functions (work, school, shopping, etc.) is a partial collapse (as in Argentina’s recent troubles), a concealed handgun would be ideal, along with body armor, if available). Keep the weapon out of sight and no one is the wiser. Government agents of all types tend to confiscate weapons they can see. A slung rifle, while tactically superior, may not give the strategic advantage. However, in a total collapse, and especially defending the hacienda, the rifles really shine, especially your two military-pattern semiautos (I am not the greatest fan of the Ruger. They’re much more fragile than the Galil and Stoner rifle). The 5.56/.223 easily defeats soft body armor and stretches your effective range out to 300 meters.

      How many magazines do you keep for each weapon? Is your Galil one of the newer ones that take STANAG magazines (AR-compatible magazines); or are they the older proprietary magazines? I am not familiar with which ones Honduras imported.

      • The family plan you said we had, well not exactly. It was mostly a plan in case a civil war started back on the events of 2009 (military coup). We would had to drive to my grandparent’s hacienda and walk it to Guatemala from there. It would have been a two day walk and probably dangerous in case of military. Luckily it never happened but we have the gear now so it is still doable.

        • Well, the best laid plans and all of that…

          The best thing about a plan that you never implement is that you still have time to polish it, add and subtract gear, food, medical supplies, improve conditioning and training, etc.

          I’m glad that never happened.

          I remember the impeachment in Honduras. I even wrote a little about it in my blog, considering the Obama Administration’s outrage over the incident (I think they were afraid of impeachment, too).

      • ” Hell, gun control in general chaps my ass; but that’s another story for another time.”

        It’s a complicated issue for sure. I have mixed feelings on it.

        • I don’t. I’d like to roll gun laws in this country back to 1933. The way I see it, if I can’t trust a man with a gun, he should still be in prison. If the State can’t trust me with a gun, its actors have something very unsavory in mind.

        • Bo. I get that but as I said the issue and then my opinion very complicated. There are no clear cut methods to go about it. Nothing perfect.

          The vast majority of gunowners are fine. The gun range type folks are fine. The second they show someone a gun they go into teaching mode watching a person like a hawk to make sure they are safe.

          My concerns and worries begin and end with how guns get transferred to low class pieces of shit. Thats the only area I am really concerned with. You hear stories about someone at a gun show doing sales under the table. You hear about a cop selling a piece of evidence black market. Those issues are my concern.

        • Keep those people in jail forever?

          Arm and train the populace (as Switzerland) to combat them?

          I understand wanting to “do something”. I just can’t thing of “something” that doesn’t limit my rights. My position is to punish the offender, not the populace. The prohibitionists have shown us time and again that their “compromise” and “common sense” only ends with complete disarmament. If we had the gun control that Great Britain had fifty years ago (draconian by American standards) they would demand the gun control that Great Britain has today. If they had the gun control Great Britain has, they’d want gun control like the Chinese. Then they’d want knife control (again, like the Britons).

        • “My position is to punish the offender, not the populace. ”

          Completely, 100% agree. I have the same belief on legalizing drugs. Full rights across the board. Just punish those who break the laws in effect to allow those freedoms.

    • Government gun stores? How strange. How often do prices change?

      • If it’s like the old Soviet Union (which did not have gun stores but you get the idea), the prices will be low, but it won’t matter because the shelves will be empty. 😉

        • Not exactly comrade. It is small but full shelves and very ugh price. It goes around 30% more than what it is really worth.

        • Well, the capitalist says that goods are priced at what they’re worth. Are you pricing by US prices, or neighboring county’s?

          Prices are very volatile here, too. I feel fortunate that I made most of my purchases about five years ago.

        • On the prices from the website. I also estimate shipping and all that jazz.

          Prices are same on all states if that’s what you meant, and if it was on countries then I have no idea but I do know that in Guatemala the put a stamp on the gun saying it was bought in there, they do that because prices are lower and people cross borders to buy and smuggle weapons.

        • That’s what I was getting at, if it’s more expensive than in neighboring countries, like Guatemala. Is the ammunition locally-made; or is it imported?

        • Imported, we have no local manufacturers of ammunition. Most of it is Mexican but we have Winchester for shotguns and Lellier and Bellot for handguns(.357 SIG, 9mm, 40 S&W, etc.)

        • That stinks. Even in a completely free market, it would probably be much more expensive than here in the States then, just to cover the cost of shipping. Although, we do get imported ammunition every once in a while that I am happy to shoot, especially the brass-cased and boxer-primed Eastern European 7.62x51mm. I’d take a pallet of that, gladly.

  3. I really like the posing of the Fig holding the door in the background of the first panel, that is a very good shot Evan.
    On the question… I have never fired a gun and I wouldn’t know where to find one.

    • That is some fantastic posing right there.

    • Thank you! I am really happy with how it turned out.

  4. My heart went out to them already. What a heartbreak. I often wonder if I’d have the guts to do the same for not just myself but for my son as well if we were trapped and about to be zombie food.

    I asked my kid once if he would take me down if I turned and he said no. He’d get turned instead so we could be zombies together. 9year olds are so awesome!

    • I didn’t realize what was going on there until I read it two or three times.

      Yeah, homicide/suicide by knife is a hard choice. I don’t think I could do it. I have a strong drive to live, you know? I don’t know if I would rather fight it out and risk being eaten, or try to stab myself and bleed out.

      • I read a joke that said, “Who am I kidding? I couldn’t stab someone to death. I can barely get the straw into a Capri Sun.”

        Knife seems so much more visceral than a gun since you are literally getting your hands dirty.

        • I think stabbing someone in an emergency would be easier than slowly, deliberately opening an artery.

          But yes, the knife is much more gruesome than the gun.

      • “I didn’t realize what was going on there until I read it two or three times”

        Yeah it’s not totally direct. And I like how the script goes with the image. Makes you wonder just how serious she is.

        ” I don’t think I could do it. I have a strong drive to live, you know? I don’t know if I would rather fight it out and risk being eaten, or try to stab myself and bleed out.”

        I appreciate how uncertain you are. Drives me insane when people claim they always know how certain they will behave or function in hostile environments they have never been in. Sure, sometimes you know, but not all the time.

        • Suck-starting a shotgun and opening an artery with a potentially dull knife are worlds apart, in my opinion.

    • Awwwww. : )

  5. First, this comic is a home run, Evan. The set, the posing, the dramatic tension- I love it.

    I want to hold off on my contribution to encourage others to participate. It is a difficult question, though. How much weight can you carry? I am no Army Ranger. I figure forty pounds is about my limit. Then I push it and add a ten pound rifle. Then I add an LBE with magazines and sundries, a sheath knife, and boots. What if you want to add body armor. soft or hard, to the mix? That’s another five pounds or more. Are you walking, or driving? How about bicycles or horses? How many in your party that can’t carry their own gear, elderly or infirm? How about small children?

    Handguns are easy to carry. A holstered firearm, even a duty-sized example practically disappears on the body with the right belt/holster combination. A GLOCK 17 with two extra magazines is fifty-two rounds of ammunition; and its .40 S&W equivalent is still forty-six rounds- hardly a slouch in the capacity department. If you have a car it’s easy to stash loaded magazines in military issue ammunition cans (the green steel cans with the removable lids). Put one of those in the center console of the car and keep the co-driver topped off.

    Lots of casual shooters in the US neglect ammunition storage. Hunters that don’t handload might buy one or two boxes of ammunition a year and use a few of them confirming their rifle’s zero (from a shooting bench, naturally) before the hunt, use another handful or rounds (maybe) on the hunt, and come on home. That’s just my experience. Yours may differ.

    More in a bit; I am curious to read others’ thought on the subject. I’d rather participate in a dialogue than pontificate.

    • “First, this comic is a home run, Evan. The set, the posing, the dramatic tension- I love it.”

      Thanks, Bo!

  6. “Handguns are easy to carry. A holstered firearm, even a duty-sized example practically disappears on the body with the right belt/holster combination.”

    Took the words out of my mouth Bo. I was thinking that hanging on to an empty handgun would be wise especially if it’s a common caliber. I personally have never handled a gun so I’m relying on melee skills.

    I think an empty rifle would make a great melee weapon depending on the material used to make the butt.

    • There’s a reason the military still teaches the bayonet and rifle as a melee weapon in Basic Training. An M1 Garand or M14 makes for a better than average club (but a much better rifle).

      I think the best bet is to not run out of ammunition.

      We sometimes joke that brass and lead will become more valuable than silver or gold. 😉

      • “There’s a reason the military still teaches the bayonet and rifle as a melee weapon in Basic Training. An M1 Garand or M14 makes for a better than average club (but a much better rifle).”

        Is that standard across all branches?

        • I’m not sure if the Navy and Air Force do in their Basic. That would be an interesting bit of homework; but the M4 makes for a crappy club anyway.

        • I am really curious about that. Seems like a critical survival skill.

        • If you do a Google search of “Kill or Get Killed” by Rex Applegate, you can find a free PDF of the 1943 edition (I think), not the current Marine Corps edition. The difference is that the older edition has a chapter on bayonet fighting. There is also training material by one Anthony Joseph Drexel Biddle, Sr., who was quite the SOB, despite having a Disney movie made about his life- all free material available on teh innertubez. 😉 enough to keep you busy for a long time.

        • That’s cool. Good research material for a yarn.

  7. It still looks pretty good to me.

    In the ZO, I think I’d hit a point to rely on bow & arrow, or crossbow as they’re quieter and so far, many shows/media show zombies attracted to the sound of gunfire.

    • I suck with a bow and arrow, though. Crossbow would be easier to shoot, because it aims and shoots like a rifle; but where would I get one?

      • “Crossbow would be easier to shoot, because it aims and shoots like a rifle; but where would I get one?”

        IMO sporting good stores will be full of them. Everyone will go for the guns and knives. The crossbows will be plentiful.

        • That’s a chance I’d hate to take. My goal is to have every needful thing, so that I won’t have to worry about looting or “scrounging”. I’d like to be in my bugout location about the same time the crest of the collapse hits. The problem with looting is you never know when there’s going to be a Korean shopkeeper on the roof with a high-power rifle.

    • “It still looks pretty good to me”

      If you mean the comic, thanks!

  8. I spend a whole day (From 4pm-6am) playing Day Z, and I come back to a new comic with everyone having already posted on it!

    • You snooze, you lose… 😉

      • Sleep? I probably should of grabbed some of that.. i swear.. Day Z = number one survivalism game to existence.. Ever.

        • Resident Evil is on line 1 and wants to have a word with you.

        • Guess I’m behind the times, because I don’t play any of them. 😉

        • Never played the Resident Evil games, but from what I’ve seen from them.. They don’t even realize what a survival game would even be about.

          Day Z is super hard core.. Perhaps a link is in order?

          Oh, and one other thing that might not be said on there.. You are playing with other people, that will kill you for your stuff.. Might it be morally wrong or not, but you can’t trust any of them. So most of the time other people with rifles are kill on sight, only on a very rare occasion can you make a good friend in hell.

        • Wish I had the skills to play online. I get my ass handed to me every time I try MW2 online.

        • MW2 and Arma 2 Day Z mod.. Completely different. There’s no fast pace action in Day Z.. Sept unless you are running for your life because you were overwhelmed by zombies, or some squad of bandits are looking for your food. Other than that.. It’s mostly good stealth, keeping yourself sane, and making sure your character doesn’t starve or suffer from dehydration.

  9. I have a ton of firearms and to many calibers to remember. Ammo, I have a some here and a lot at my ranch.

    • I have a few hunting rifles that I barely keep ammunition for, oddball calibers that hardly worth it, despite being perfect for their niches (e.g. .22-250). For the common stuff (7.62x51mm, 5.56, etc.), I consider a thousand rounds per weapon a good place to start.

  10. Seems that everyone else has written their pace regarding ammunition. I take the same position regarding ammunition that I do all other supplies: Have all you think you’ll need. Don’t plan on sharing. Like Calicade wrote about his online game, in a WCS scenario, people may kill you for your shoes, or food, or medicine, whatever. It’s hard to keep your head down and out of trouble when you’re out scrounging for ammunition. I will not trade ammunition for the simple fact that the bullet I trade may be the bullet that kills me. Have all you need. A thousand rounds and twenty magazines per weapon seems like a good start.

    For carrying, I have found that ten 7.62 NATO magazines will fit in a 7.62mm ammunition can. I can throw cans of loaded magazines in the center console of a car or truck for the co-driver or gunner. That way the magazines I keep on my person stay where they are.

    For on-body carry I have a single Kydex magazine holder for a 9mm/.40S&W GLOCK magazine. I also have one for an M15 magazine. That covers simple, everyday carry. After that, I have oodles of methods of carrying extra ammunition, from LBE to bandoleers to duty belts. Just remember that ammunition is heavy; and it’s worth it.

  11. Another fantastic comic! Love the fig posing! Now as for the question, I know where some guns are but I don’t know where the ammo is :s

    • So you know where some mechanically complicated bludgeons are then, huh?


    • Thank you! I am stunned at the reception.

  12. Question:
    Oh man, we’re totally screwed over here when it comes to ammo. You need a license for it, and you have to tell the cops exactly why you need that ammo, and they don’t have to let you have it if they don’t want to. Sure, it would be possible to slip some out of each batch and hide it, you don’t need to account for all of it (yet) but if you get caught owning more than you’re licensed for, you lose all your guns and ammo, and spend a lengthy time in jail. Obviously, there’s a lot less of it around for scrounging purposes too.
    I enjoy shooting, but I can’t safely make a gun part of my preparation plans. I’d have to find a melee weapon in a crisis.