Episode 232: Can I Leave?

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Dave

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Zombie Cliché Lookout: Voluntary Imprisonment

You know what sucks? Being held against your will by a bunch of people that you know nothing about, but who keep saying weird, vaguely creepy stuff. And do you know what’s worse than that? When they dangle freedom in front of your face, imply that you can leave when and if you want, and then keep you locked up anyway. That sucks.

Of course, just because people are holding you against your will, doesn’t necessarily make them bad guys. I mean sure, the odds are definitely in favor of them being bad guys, but you never know. The zombie apocalypse is going to make a lot of people paranoid, so it might take them a little while to come around to new people. It’s not that they don’t like you personally, they just need to get to know you. And while they get to know you, you’re sort of locked up and they’re sort of heavily armed.

About this Episode:

For some reason, lighting “Dad” has been quite a challenge. I’ve had a ton of over-exposed photos of his face. Perhaps it’s the power of the beret?

Other News:

Don’t forget, ZombieMutts is taking over the comic for a couple of weeks while I’m out on paternity leave. He need discussion questions, so fire them off to [email protected].

Discussion Question: Firearms

This one came up in the comments in the last episode, and since I’m an unapologetic thief, I’m stealing it. What sort of experience do you have with firearms? If blasting zombies in the face is a big part of your zombie susurvival strategy, do you know whether you can hit the broad side of a barn? How about the narrow side? How about a head that’s waving back and forth as it stumbled slowly toward you, mouth hanging open in anticipation of feasting on your entrails?

Oh, and the question comes from Phantom. Steal, but give credit where due.

109 thoughts on “Episode 232: Can I Leave?”

  1. Saved it, yes. But only after knocking him unconscious first. I’d call that kidnapping and I dare Sam not to challenge them on that point! 😀

    • What’s a closed head injury between friends?

      • It’s all fun and games until the TBI (traumatic brain injury) manifests.

        Hope Sam doesn’t start having mood swings…

      • Hah, if these weirdos are Sam’s friends, he may as well make enemies of them and flatly refuse to help them or have anything to do with them! 😀

      • Hey seriously tho its not like he really needed them he was on the roof of a truck they couldnt climb right and murph + allies coulda gotten him to safty eventually right??

    • I was thinking the same thing. Saved him but took him hostage first. This guy is a nut. I love him!

  2. Me I’m a natural born and raised Texan. Small town and a ranch. When I was young I use to hunt and loved it. Great shot with a rifle. I can disassemble and rebuild an AR 15. I once went hog hunting out of a helicopter with my cousin for my birthday with a 12 gauge.

    • Hunting out of a helicopter with a shotgun? I wouldn’t think you could make a clean kill at that sort of distance.

      • You probably couldn’t, so you fly real close to the ground. Maybe 15-20 feet in the air.

        • Sounds like a hell of a birthday party.

  3. Beard power!

    • I recently trimmed my manful beard back into a more manageable goate for summer.

  4. Thanks for the credit Dave!
    So firearms. Have some practice with them. I have enrolled in some courses, 3 actually, and feel pretty prepared in case of an emergency. Not neccesairly zombies. But once had to shoot out a black dot, size of a quarter, 10 feet away. That doesn’t sound like much, but you needed to do it in 1-3 bullets. Also timed. Also have shot a Mini 14, which is chambered in .223. Very high velocity bullet. Perfect for deer hunting and blowing up heads.

    If interested read more, but I warn it will be me talking about what gun is best. Some advice if you may.

    If interested in the shooting business the best way to go is 9x19mm Parabellum(9mm). It is the easiest to handle for self defense, maybe the best for beginners. The best gun to start with might be the Glock 17 for it is durable and, well, a Glock. Cheap for the durability, reliable, you feel safe with it. Also if you have a bigger budget, a nice Berreta 92 or M9 could work. Ahh Berreta, the gun of a king…

    • If home defense, a shotgun. Some don’t cost as much as pistol. I remember seeing a 12 gauge go for $280 once. The reviews from the owners said it was great. And if you have the budget for a beretta you could just buy $100 worth of shells.

      • Or this: http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/mossberg-just-case-cruiser-pump-shotgun-51340-gauge-chmbr-black-synthetic-survival-p-96837.html

        • That is much better, and comes in a cooler casing!

        • I don’t think one could pay me enough to fire a twelve gauge without a stock. Ouch!

          I think one can pick up models with youth-length stocks all over the place for about the same price

      • Yes indeed, but it is what ever you feel more confident with, shotguns are cool, but I believe a pistol has a larger range than most shotguns, also I prefer the pistol over the boom stick. Stll, home defense scenarios, shotguns might work better than a pistol.

        • I believe the gun you are saying is a Mossberg 500. Very reliable and nice wooden stock.

        • The rule of thumb, for an eighteen-inch barrel with a modified choke and plane-Jane nine pellet buckshot, is one inch of spread per yard range from the muzzle. Most hallways are less than ten yards long; so expect a pattern less than ten inches across. That’s plenty tight enough to hit a zombie in the grape at conversational distances, and also small enough to miss entirely if you jerk the trigger.

          The Mossberg 500 and 590 are fine weapons, as is the Winchester 1300. If I prefer the Remington 870 it’s mostly snobbery. I would not turn down any of them in a pinch.

    • I tend to think that, if you’re not a gun person and you want something for home defense, a shotgun or a revolver would be better. Easier to operate, very little chance of a jam. Not as sexy as an autoloader, but when you’re not sure what you’re doing, you’ll appreciate the simplicity.

      • The revolver is harder to maintain at the armorer level. That is, don’t try taking one apart unless you’re very, very good. I would not pull the side plate off of a revolver on my best day. Many autoloaders are much less complicated on the inside. I can, and have take a GLOCK apart down to the last pin (there are even Youtube vids that show you how to do it). The revolver malfunctions less; but when it does go TU (tits up), it goes down hard.

        I love the pump 12 gauge for all that it is. Sure, it’s a niche weapon; but within that niche it’s wonderfully efficient.

        • Interesting. I didn’t know that about the revolver. What in them is complicated? The timing on the cylinder rotation?

        • Yeah, the timing mechanisms are complicated and relatively fragile. I would not want to carry a revolver through the dust and mud long term. Whereas with a GLOCK, you can just strip it, swish it around in some diesel fuel and you are good to go.

          I recommend The Farnam Method of Defensive Handgunning by John S. Farnam. He examines all of these points in detail. It’s a little dated, but still reads well.

        • Yeah, it’s stuff like that where the people who know nothing like me can get totally out of our depth.

  5. The beret, the beret. Hail the mighty beret!

    • I have a friend who claims to own one. I’ve been trying to setup time to do a shoot. No luck yet.

      • I believe you mean the gun, I mean the facial hair in this comment.

        • Oh, yeah, I figured you mean the big’ol rifle.

        • Want to shoot one so bad.

  6. All I have to say about these people is, dafug did I just read? Just kidding, they are D-Bags.

    With guns, I have not had any experience with “actual” firearms(unless you count a pellet gun that could easily lodge pellets deep into a bone). I am however an excellent aim(lot’s of practice with both reliable and unreliable BB/Pellet guns). I have also seen/read a lot about how to clean/maintain a gun(mostly bolt action rifles and revolvers as they are usually quite easy to clean).

    On another note, it seems like nobody but Calicade, Luis, and I were interested in discussion on the survival plans page. Mayhaps somebody like say, *nudge* Dave *nudge* were to bring it up in a *cough* description *cough*.

    • BTW I say D-bags in the kindest way possible.

    • Re: The Survival Page, I can give it a mention. I need to get a forum setup, things have just been too damn crazy around here lately.

      • Completely understandable, I understand what with so much going on in your life, I am amazed you have been able to keep talking with the community.

        • Hah, I do my best. The community is fun, so it doesn’t feel like work, you know?

        • Yeah, this is a fairly nice community, wouldn’t want to make a town out of these people, but yes, a nice, friendly, and quite interesting community.

        • “Wouldn’t want to make a town out of these people.” Bwa, ha, ha!! I love it! “Um, honey; who are your, um, friends? Watz with all the weapons?”

  7. So. its JUST a storage room? No fancy secret things around it. or even inside it?

    Im too curious on how it looks like…

    • We’ll be seeing the rest of the place soon enough.

      • Strangely enough, their compound has roughly the same footprint as the Branch Davidians.

        Coincidence?

        Hmmm…

        😉

        • Hah!

  8. Hmmmm… Biggest gun I ever shot was a .22. Plenty of BB guns though, and I’m a fairly good shot provided I get the chance to fire a few test rounds and see how bad the drop is. So… Shamblers are toast unless they’re up close and I’m panicking, but not too sure about running zombies. Never really shot at fast moving targets, let alone those that intended to inflict harm on my person. Probably wouldn’t do too well.

    • Yeah, fast moving targets coming right at you would be a challenge.

      • Psychologically maybe. Sideways movement is what you need to lead for though.

  9. Unconscious debts are the worst of all.

    As for guns? .22 shots at ground squirrels on the farm (cousins, not mine), a Physics 12 field trip to the Fish and Game Club firing range, and the odd bit of pellet gun stuff here and there. Otherwise, nada. I may take a course at some point – either to serve as props master for a play my wife directs (if you have a realistic gun on stage hereabouts, you need someone to have their Firearms Safety ticket in charge of the prop – no lie) or to take ownership over my dad’s cowboy special – a .22/20 gauge rifle, two barrels atop the other. I’ve not even fired that one. Hell, he’s probably not, either – he served a tour with the RCMP, was second in marksmanship in his troupe, and never ever had any interest in a gun of any sort in his possession until he inherited that one from his uncle a few years back.

    • That rifle would be referred to as an over under shotgun/rifle.

      • Over/unders are so cool.

    • That kind of makes sense that the propmaster would need some firearm safety training. You can never be too safe around a gun.

      How many of your family members were Mounties, Lich? It seems like you mentioned your Grandpa was as well.

      • I’m pretty sure my dad’s dad wasn’t a Mountie – strictly farming. Ditto for my mom’s dad – who I did meet and knew, and he totally would have talked about being a police officer had he been one. (I remember him telling me about traveling in Africa and turning tigers inside out by reaching in their mouths and pulling their tails… ah, memories of grandfatherly malarkey…) As it was, my Dad didn’t spend much time in the RCMP. All I’ve got of it is his old “evolution of the uniform” painting and memories of wearing his old gear (jodhpurs, dress shirt, and Strathcona boots – man, those were awesome boots) for my role in “The Sound of Music” in high school. (The nuns really loved those boots – some were so hot for them. …that may be one of the funniest lines I’ve ever written.)

        And one never can be too careful. I recall my wife telling me the security they had to have for a mock Baretta handgun for one play they did.

        And thanks for the terminology, guy. I’ve only rudimentary gun vocabulary.

        • That sounds about as ridiculous as over here. Sure, you need to be careful with a gun, but a mock gun is not a real gun! Unless you mean a blank firer, those can actually be dangerous.

  10. I prefer handguns myself. I have three different pistols in .40 S&W, and a really nice single action .45 long colt peacemaker just for fun. My .40s are a S&W Sigma (basically their version of a Glock), a Ruger, & the pride of Israel the Jericho (also known as the Baby Eagle).
    I’m a pretty good shot out to about 20 feet. Not much practice beyond that as I’ve only trained with self defense in mind.
    As for long guns I have a Remington that shoots .223 cal which I am near useless with, and a 20 gauge boomstick that I can get my fill of rabbit with.

    In the name of ammo conservation I don’t think I’d want to be making risky long shots, nor would I be out to kill every zombie I could see. I’d hate to be forced to go to my swords because I was playing sniper, or “hunting” something I couldn’t eat.

    • You have a cowboy gun? That’s awesome!

  11. Do BB guns count? That’s pretty much the only experience I have with something of the likes of a gun. My family has a few shotguns around our house. I guess I could learn to use those if the opportunity provided itself…

    • I’d have to differ to someone with more knowledge than I have on whether BB guns help you build fundamentals. I mean, it seems like they would, but I haven’t a clue.

      • I remember reading about a point-shooting methodology built around the Daisy BB gun. I’ll bet a quick google search will tell you all about it.

  12. I know an awful lot about guns… in theory. I’ve never actually fired one, I don’t own one, and I don’t want one.

    I did once play through the entirety of the arcade game Area 51 playing as both players simultaneously, only losing 1 life from the left-hand gun… so with light-beam guns I’m deadly.

    If it comes to dealing with the undead, it’s hand-to-hand combat all the way for me, unfortunately.

    • Or blunt and sharp objects. Like I have two Ka-bar USMC Fighting knives. One big one and a smaller one (but sharper).

    • My problem with bladed weapons (and after years of Pekiti Tirsia) is that blood has a tendency to get on the person doing the cutting. Blood everywhere = contamination (HIV or hep B?). Blunt weapons can certainly cause spatter; but not as much as the blade.

      • I have that same problem with shotguns up close, you really don’t wnat to blow a zombies head apart, just to get yourself completely soaked in infected blood and skull fragments.

        • I’ve had to watch enough blood-borne pathogen videos from HR to know that machete-ing a zombie is probably not terribly conducive to long-term survival.

        • Depends on the zombie mythos, right? If it’s a 28 Days Later zombie, you’re right. If it’s a Romero zombie (and you’ll be turning into a zombie as soon as you die), who cares?

          Dave, you sure are right regarding the blood-borne pathogens.

          So, how many N95 masks do you have in your zombie survival kit, again?

        • Are N95 masks your standard paper respirators? I have a box of those in the garage (almost empty, of course).

        • The N95’s I use are medical grade, 3M 1860. I keep them all over the place.

          You have to be fit-tested, too, to make sure nothing is getting around the mask. The test involves wearing the mask under a hood. The wearer talks, reads aloud, and exercises with the tester sprays banana oil (or pepper spray- ouch!) inside the hood. If you can smell it, the mask does not fit.

          Remember a surgical mask is to keep things from getting out (so put them on the infected). An N95 mask keeps things from getting in.

        • Ah, that makes a lot of sense.

          My mostly-empty box of paper respirators from Home Depot probably won’t do me much good.

        • Better than a poke in the eye.

          You can probably rig a simple fit test yourself with air freshener and a pillow case. It’s just important to get the correct size. For instance, I am 5’11 and 195 pounds, but I wear a small size mask because I have a narrow face.

          You’d also have to shave to get a proper fit.

        • Shave? That’s a deal breaker, Bo.

          In a PAW situation, I’m rocking a crazy-survivalist beard. I want people to have to look twice to make sure they didn’t just see Sasquatch walk by.

        • It’s all fun and games until the typhus kicks in…

          I actually keep unscented shaving gel and disposable razors in my medical preps. It’s not about fashion, but hygiene. In the aftermath, everyone’s getting a buzz cut and a shave, until we get the water back running.

        • You and your damn medical facts, always messing up my deranged, Mad Maxian view of disaster preparedness.

        • Yeah, what’s the point of surviving the extinction event if you’re infested with parasites? :-p

        • Hah, well said.

        • I like all of my hygiene preps unscented, because the smell of perfumes will travel a long ways when everyone else stinks like poo. Whenever I make a grocery run, I always add a hygiene or medical prep to the cart, an extra box of dressings or bandages (I like Kendall- not made in China like Johnson and Johnson), unscented antibacterial soaps, toothpaste, toothbrushes, etc. It adds up in a hurry. Too many preppers overlook that for the beans and the bullets. Don’t forget feminine needs.

          Not that zombies can smell; but zombies are the least of my worries.

  13. Again regarding firearms, we have sufficient for our needs in weapons, accessories (including magazines, optics, slings, eye/ear protection, etc.), and ammunition, enough to lay waste to a lot of zombies. As for training, I’ve taken classes from some local and nationally-recognized trainers in handgun, urban rifle, and shotgun. I’ve been to several Appleseed shoots and am a bona fide Fred-trained Rifleman. I have trained in the Modern Technique of the handgun, the Isosceles, and Applegate-style point shooting.

    I wrote this back in 2009 about why you don’t need one firearm but three- a working firearms battery: http://762rifleman.wordpress.com/2009/06/25/working-firearms-battery/

    My preferred battery is an M14S rifle (the semiautomatic version of the M14), the Remington 870, and the GLOCK 17. I like the power of the 7.62 NATO/.308, the penetration. I’ve run this rifle in “urban rifle” classes with men running AR and AKM-pattern rifles, and suffered no penalty in terms of speed of follow-up shots with any but the most experienced operators; and the ability to hit with authority at 300 meters more than made up for it.

    I think shooting zombies in the head is a difficult proposition. As I wrote previously, the human skull is not easy to penetrate. The bone is hard. The dome shape tends to deflect bullets; and the front of the skull has a non-homogenous composition, with tissue, bone, and air. Some rounds have a notorious reputation for inadequate penetration of multiple non-homogenous barriers (including handgun rounds, and believe it or not, the 5.56/.223). For consistent head shots, I’d recommend a rifle with a red dot optic, either Aimpoint or EOTech. You’ll need the ability to make fast follow-up shots if you want to pile up the bodies (since the gunfire will attract every zombie for miles).

    • It appears I have left a tag open somewhere…

      I wish I had the ability to edit my comments.

      • Wasn’t quite sure where you wanted it closed, so I took a guess. Let me know if you want it changed.

        • I can’t remember why I included it…

          🙁

          LOL. They say the memory is the second thin got go…

        • I have to ask: what’s the first?

        • Well, if you have to ask…

          There’s a little blue pill for that. 😉

        • Hah! I hope I keep both for a hell of a long time.

    • I have an 870, so I’m a third of the way there.

      Or I will be once we permanently move and I move my gun safe from my parent’s house.

      • That’s only my recommendation. You have to find what works for you.

        If I had all of the money of avarice, I would add a belt-fed to the list.

        • Hah, the belt-fed would certainly help keep the noisy neighbors at bay.

        • “Noisy” or “nosy”?

          Hmmm…

          Both?

        • Hah, both would work here, actually. Probably take care of the quiet, unassuming neighbors as well.

      • An M240 on the roof would definitely make for a peaceful neighborhood.

        The Brickarms M249 is my favorite LEGO accessory. I have one with my ADU troops and one with my PMC squad (which will be monster hunters as soon as I can lay ahold on some Monster Hunter LEGO sets).

  14. Not a gun person really. Just ask my gun safe. I’ve mentioned it before Saiga-12 semi-automatic shotgun, AR-15 with nearly a dozen 30 round magazines. 2 .9mm, .45 acp, .380 acp, two .22 pistols and rifle. A Thompson contender .45 Long/.410 shotgun. And an assortment of antique pistols that shoot if you can find ammo. I belong to a gun club where I shoot weekly. I shoot regularly in a combat league, a course where you have senerios like shooting behind things, through things, in the dark. I’ve also done a few 3 gun courses which are just plain fun. These usually take 50 to 100 rounds of 3 guns. Last month, Shotgun, AR-15, and pistol. You have to carry all ammo and guns on you. And you can’t drop your magazines on the ground, you need to keep them with you. So it’s a challenge to carry all of this stuff. I’ve got my chest rig pretty much set up for this. I also have thigh rigs that help. I also have a water bladder and a place for snacks on the rig. It can take a while until your turn is up.

    • That’s another good point: How is one going to carry all of that crap. Like you, I have an LBV set up for my main rifle, with mag pouches for rifle and handgun, a blowout kit, pouches for sundries (licky-chewies, map, compass, signal gear, etc.), and a tri-band handie-talkie.

      Folks that are planning on bugging out need to find a way to carry their gear and to test it. For example, can you drive a car with your LBV on? Better find out now, before the zombies come.

    • I believe I saw a video with you doing your combat league shoot, Siabur. Looked like a hell of a good time.

      Re: dropping magazines. That always makes me think about a book where a character did this because that’s what he saw in the movies. Later, he needed a new magazine and was pissed at having to shell out the cash for them.

      • They’re only semi-disposable. That is, they’re not a permanent item; but they should last a good long time, especially if they’re polymer or steel (not aluminum).

      • You did. I was actually shooting the Saiga for the first time.

        In an apocalyptic situation, finding more magazines won’t be an easy thing. And you may not be able to return to the area to retrieve them. And in the case of the Saiga, magazines aren’t easy to find locally today. Have to internet them. So won’t be leaving them anywhere.

        • That’s the most compelling reason for the revolver and military-pattern bolt action rifle, say, a Smith and Wesson Model 19 and an unaltered 1903 Springfield or a Winchester or Remington (not Eddystone) M1917. You’d have powerful weapons in common calibers that aren’t magazine fed.

        • There ya go Bo.

        • For magazine-fed weapons, I plan on at least twenty per. That’s my rule of thumb.

  15. Beign a junior higher in a city that’s in the central valley of california, I’ve only shot a true gun once, Trap shooting and out of the total score, I hit 10 out of 75 discs.

    • Trap shooting is a good time. Haven’t gone in years. My first time out, I probably shot about that well too.

  16. I wonder how much damage shooting an aluminum ball out of a paintball gun would do to a zombie. I technically don’t have any aluminum ammunition for my paintball gun, but it would be interesting to see what it would do. Might be cool to see as part of a MythBusters episode. All that needs to be done is to make up an appropriate myth for them to test and send it off to them.

  17. I can’t stand the kind of people that don’t give you an option to leave. If I don’t like your damn rules, I won’t follow them or you. As for the question, I know how to use the basic firearm (firing, reloading, etc.) but as for maintenance, I wouldn’t know where to start. Give me a week and some screwdrivers, I could figure something out; but an hour and some twigs will get you a pile of scrap metal.

    • You know most firearms need no screwdrivers for simple disassemble? There are generally some slots on the edges or parts that take them off real easy. Assembly takes a bit more time though. Even with simple disassemble, a gun can be cleaned properly and efficiently.

  18. I hate peaches to death, but the yellow heads kin of limit what minifigs can wear. Emma looks almost naked in that hazmat suit, for example.
    My firearms experience is limited to Nerf guns and random home-made stuff my crazy friends make in their spare time. I could probably figure out how to use a proper gun pretty quickly, though.

    • Interesting observation; but I won’t buy sets with peach heads. I hate them. 😉

  19. 95

  20. 96

  21. 97

  22. 98

  23. 99

  24. can we get to 100? oh, wait a minute, WE MADE IT!!!!!!!!

  25. Way to be a post horse…

    • if it gets over 90, I like to make it go to 100, then we are a successful internet community.

      • I feel ya on that l3m0nm4n. lol

  26. Hmm, I wonder exactly what they want from him?

    Question:
    We have a real hard time with guns here in the UK, but I’ve gotten to shoot a few times. A couple of times shooting clays, and I think three visits now to a range not too far from home to shoot 10/22s. Not a huge amount of experience, but I really impressed myself with how well I did; 9/10 clays each time, and a nice tight group with the rifle, albeit at fairly close range.
    I’m pretty sure I could consistently hit a zombie in the head out to about 5m or so, so long as we’re talking about slow shambly ones not fast runny ones.

    Not that this would do me much good, of course, since I don’t own a gun. I want to get one, but not only are they more expensive here, you can’t get one unless you spend a small fortune on a safe to keep it in.