Zombie Cliché Lookout: Before You Wreck Yo’Self
I really, really don’t like zombie comedies (outside a couple notable exceptions like Shaun of the Dead, which is one of the best zombie movies – comedy or otherwise – ever made). I say this because zombie comedies are generally the only zombie movies that feel free to acknowledge some of the inherit craziness of their stories. In a straight zombie horror flick, for instance, your find that the characters will very rarely, if ever take a step back and really examine their situation frankly. Because if they did, they would have to admit that some seriously crazy shit had gone down.
Now don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with characters accepting people coming back from the dead and feasting on the living. They have to, really. Denying it would be a death sentence. However, in most zombie flicks we tend to go well beyond that reasonable suspension of disbelief required to watch a zombie movie into straight-up Hollywood action move territory.
When your life involves car chases, shootouts, fist fights, and death-defying stunt like jumping several floors into a dumpster, you’re living in an action movie.
About this Episode:
So there’s a whole bunch of zombies right around the corner, which means our heroes can’t really stand around jawing for too long. At least not if they want to continue with their whole “not getting eaten” thing, which they seem to enjoy. At any rate, they’ve been talking here for a couple of episodes now. That seems like a long time, but in reality very little time is really passing here. Maybe a couple of minute of discussion.
Discussion Question: How Smart are Zombies
We got some interesting discussion the other day about whether zombies should be smart enough to recognize a door, or whether they should just treat it like another obstacle (like the rest of the wall). This got me thinking about how smart zombies should really be. I think it’s reasonable for zeds to surge a door if they see prey go through it, but what if they don’t?
How smart do you like your zombies? Doorknobs, or with enough brainpower to figure out extremely basic things? Where do you draw the line?
Well, at least Cherly agrees – but will Stewart do likewise? 😀
*Cheryl
Hard to say with that guy.
DO NOT FEAR NEKRO’S HERE! 😀
Sorry I haven’t been on of late. I was ill and was walking down the stairs with my laptop. Yes, I pretty tripped and flew down the stairs with laptop in hand, completely wrecked the screen.
But now it’s all fixed and back so yay! 😀
Lovin the work Dave…
God that sucks Nekro. Glad to have you back.
I can’t wait for a zombie to grab Stewart as they leave. He is just too exposed(last panel)!
He does seem perched on the edge of the danger zone, doesn’t he?
But was it intentional or was it just pure coincidence? We might as well learn next Monday…
Hah
I seem to have forgotten or accidentally removed the discussion question. Oops. It’s back up now.
In the first part of the zombie cliche lookout, last sentence: ‘Admin’ should be ‘admit’. 😀
I prefer the zombies exactly as they are now in BotD: One of my all-time favourite webcomics now that I’ve discovered it! 😀
Whoops. Got that fixed.
Doorknobs. Defenitely doorknobs. I hate the zombies from day of the dead.
It does improve the survivability, doesn’t it?
Smart enough to recognize a door, an then breach it. Not like they will search every door, just in case the prey appears to go through it as they are in persue.
This is about where I’m at. Zombies should be able to recognize a door most of the time, simple because they’ve likely seen and used them (not all doors will be closed).
Most people in this country can walk through a door, and most of them aren’t much smarter than what a zombie would be. I’m not going to make much of a point here, but I think there might be some retention of the more well fed undead.
Hah, well said.
There is no zombie canon. Anyone can say whatever they want about zombies- fast, slow, living dead, or diseased people, with memories or without. Personally, I prefer George Romero’s zombies to anyone else’s, and establish his as authoritative (I hate Max Brook’s, and would gladly throat-punch him for making stupid assumptions, and nearly ruining the genre for me).
Romero zombies hold a trace of memories of their lives (even in Night of the Living Dead; so, when it comes to zombies, I assume the worst. I don’t think they’d set coordinated ambushes (because most people could not run an ambush). I’ve never seen evidence of zombie teamwork; but I don’t think individuals would have trouble with a doorknob, or even a ladder.
Nicely thought out, Bo. I couldn’t agree more with the lack of a real canon. That’s something a lot of people don’t understand about the genre.
I don’t mind Max Brooks one bit. He’s stating the rules for zombies in his world. People just take it too seriously and hold him up as a de facto expert, which is extremely irritating.
I just want to see him try to penetrate a human skull with a .22lr.
I don’t care for him. I think his work would be more entertaining if he didn’t claim to be an authority on the subject. He makes shit up as he goes along and holds it up as doctrine, i.e. you have to do it this way. I know real-life men with a lot more experience that repeatedly tell me there are more ways than one to get crap done.
I see that as mostly schtick, which I can appreciate.
I don’t know enough about guns to talk about the 22lr with any authority. Having shot a 22 quite a lot, I have to assume the effective range would be very, very small unless you were an absolute expert marksman.
You’d have to pretty much put it in the eyeball, all the time. The human skull is a non-homogeneous barrier to the brain (from the front), with multiple layers of bone, air, and tissue. Multiple layers tend to deflect bullets (this is the same principle that bullet-resistant vests use). Additionally, the bones of the upper skull (the frontal, parietal, and occipital bones) are both hard and domes. The dome shape of the skull tends to deflect bullets (colloquially called “creasing”).
To ensure skull penetration, I would want as much gun as I could get.
Makes sense to me.
I know a lot of people like to say that 22s are used to kill hogs and alligators, but what they fail to mention is that this is generally done at point-blank range.
I think that alligators are easier to kill than people.
Anyone going up against a feral hog with a .22 has great clanking brass ones, for sure; or did you mean domestic hogs? Even then, you’d have to get mighty close, as you wrote, and put the muzzle in a precise spot.
A good experiment would be to get a mess of hog heads and try to penetrate them with various actual and expedient melee weapons. How hard would you have to swing a framing hammer to do the job?
Another thing to consider: when one strikes an object, not all of the force transfers to it. Some of that force causes the object to move. The zombie’s head moves on its neck like a bobble-head doll.
Too bad no one applies real-world physics to movies. 😉
As to the hog experiment, it won’t penetrate more than single skull using regular .22, but can be capable of going through the entire body length depending on th rifle and shooter. Also .22lr is more than enough to kill deer so I might guess that a human skull is also a nice bet.
I wouldn’t count on it. It might make for a nice episode of Mythbusters, but no way in hell am I going up against any kind of dangerous beast (particularly h. sapiens- living or reanimated) with a .22lr. Even from a rifle barrel, I doubt it has the velocity and mass to consistently penetrate the cranial vault (and I’d much prefer perforation to mere penetration).
Maybe some poachers have taken dear w/ a .22lr. That doesn’t mean the kills are quick, or sporting. I’d bet my last dollar that it’s illegal to hunt dear in all fifty states w/ a .22.
Do people assume zombies have skulls like peat moss, or something? Just because they’re dead does not mean their skulls are not still as hard and dense as, well, as bone.
Bo, I would say something, but your saying it for me.
Well you see I am not from the US, I am from Honduras (wiki it no time to explain) and I have seen people killing deer with a .22lr. I was pretty skeptical at first but then it turned out to be true. Personally prefer good ol’ .223. And no I do not assume a human head is fragile, actually I think it is one of the toughest( considering what I have gone through).
Regarding the hardness of zombie skulls. I recently asked my sister (she’s a funeral director) about his. She said that by the time the skull started losing any density, the rest of the zed would be pudding. So anyone counting on mushy zombie skulls is likely going to be out of luck.
I have no doubt that one can do it, Poachers do it in the US. It’s not that one can’t do it, it’s that it’s immensely impractical, especially against the human skull.
I did not direct the peat moss comment against you specifically, but against Max Brooks and his acolytes, that recommend a suppressed Ruger model 10/22 as a potent and effective anti-zombie platform.
Oh, good. Yes it is very unpractical for you have to be very close to target. I’d say a 9mm pistol might even do a better job. Good thing we are able to sort our differences in thoughts on an orderly manner.
9mm NATO (9x19mm) is the smallest caliber I recommend for two-legged beasts. Cost of training ammunition has become a serious issue in the US. I’ve seen folks move from .45 acp to .40 S&W to 9×19 just so they can keep shooting. This Greatest Depression has made hypocrites of all of us.
Another point to consider regarding melee weapons is that wide, thin blades (such as Stew’s machete) tend to stick inside the media they are cutting. That’s why ax heads are triangular, so they don’t hang up. Most anyone that’s ever tried to clear heavy brush (sapling trees, for instance) will tell you that. I’d hate to see Stew’s machete get stuck in some zombie’s melon. That would break my heart. 😉
Yeah, machetes will stick hard, and they’re generally not eat to extricate. You you’d better hope that zombie you stuck it in is dead, or you’re about to have a really bad day.
I don’t know about that, they stick in wood, sure, but the skull is more brittle than wood and the brains inside are a lot softer. If you hit hard enough to penetrate the skull, I would expect it to shatter rather than cut cleanly. You’d still probably be better poking it in the face, I would expect better penetration that way.
I’ve read just one Max Brook’s book – World War Z – and I really liked that he brought the ZA to a world wide stage in that book and not just to US or UK suburbia.
I do like his ideas about zombies being able to walk under water and not digest food but like Bo says, he is one author and since zombies are not real (YET) he really can’t be take seriously when saying he’s an expert. That’s actually kind of funny. lol
Yeah, he’s an expert, all right… *rolling eyes*
Another thing I like about Romero zombies: when a person dies, he or she becomes a zombie. Period (also in The Walking Dead as I recall). the zombie bite doesn’t turn one into a zombie. It kills him. It’s dying that turns one into a zombie. That’s why the zombies were clawing their way out of graves in Night of the Living Dead.
Imagine our protagonists above are driving a away from the zombie hordes at high speed. Stew slides off the roof and breaks his neck. Whups, Stew is now a zombie. It adds another level of danger to the situation. When grandma dies of a heart attack, you have to smash her head in before you can bury her. 😀
Omg that is the national policy in Dawn of the Dreadfuls. lol
It’s the prequel to Pride and Prejudice and Zombies and had me in stitches.
Never read it; but it’s also the policy in the Monster Hunter books. Any dead monster hunter gets his or her head cut off before burial.
Yeah, I like the “Everyone who dies, turns” thing too. Like Bo says, it just adds another element to the danger.
Doorknobs are fine by me. Intelligent zombies can’t be defeated, not without taking out most survivors, that’s for sure.
Yes indeed.
Only able to recognize a door if it is open or someone goes through it. Otherwise it sees it as nothing more than a wall. Would walk strait off a cliff, or into a swimming pool if no one else did before.
I love the image of zombies just casually walking into an empty swimming pool.
“intelligent zombie” is an oxymoron. they are dead so the brain function should be super limited. I don’t have a problem with walking through or busting down a door but a door knob should be about as advanced as they can handle. I don’t think lifting the handle of a gate would be too tough but a latch system should be too complicated. Climbing takes a lots of coordination and focus and I don’t think zombies should be that smart.
I did say that they are dead right?
Are they just animated corpses? There’s no way to make a definitive argument, because folks are just making stuff up. As stated above, anyone that claims to be an expert is deserving of a kick to the crotch.
As for me, I only use the zombie apocalypse as an excuse to educate people regarding preparedness, and as a metaphor for the average workaday slob with utter trust in the powers that be to take care of them. “Zombies” in this case are interchangeable with “sheep” and the more pejorative “sheeple”.
To that end, yes, zombies can open doors, climb ladders, maybe oven drive a car, because that’s how it would be in the worst case scenario (and I endeavor to prepare for the worst case scenario).
Um… are you sure you like zombies? lol
What do you mean? You see a difference between a gangbanger and a zombie?
I don’t.
I get the metaphor thing but a brain dead and shuffling brain-eating corpes should definately be viewed differently than a gang banger thug and his posse. That’s like saying an asteroid hitting the earth is the same as earthquake.
Although there are different ways to make zombies, and they can be tailored to the writer, there are still some things that are “must haves” in order to call something a zombie. Otherwise, it is a different type of monster with different history.
I love Romero zombies and 28 Days Later zombies just the same. But it is the unrelenting need to destroy that makes the zombie what it is and you can’t get that kind of devotion to cause from a gangbanger. A Z will never regret killing a little kid or worry about selling crack to help his mom pay rent.
I think maybe there is zombie cannon and that unstoppable mindless drive would be it.
btw – I don’t mean to sound snotty. I think I got a bit passionate there.
I am all about “to each his own” and can’t say your wrong just that I don’t agree.
My point is not the story. That’s a vehicle, but not the message. The message is to prepare, to get your house in order. Zombies are shambling hordes of (presumably) animated corpses. They may or may not be flesh-eaters (in the book I am Legend they were not only flesh eaters, but also cannibals- Romero claimed I am Legend as one of his early inspirations for Night of the Living Dead).
Folks have used zombies to represent mindless, self-destructive consumerism. Others have said that it’s an anti-war critique or about civil rights. It doesn’t matter much to me, except that I take great schadenfreude in seeing how the protagonists are woefully unprepared, and invariably can’t see passed the ends of their noses (like Shane in The Walking Dead). The zombie apocalypse genre gets me in the mood to look at my own preparations (for example, I still can’t watch the Dawn of the Dead remake without a shotgun in my lap, or screaming at the television through the entire last act).
So my comparison may have been a little obtuse, but not completely invalid: zombies, to me, represent the unknown threat.They are the bad parents that don’t have any more than three-days worth of food in the house, and will resort to looting to feed their starving children. They are the Katrina looters stealing televisions. They are the herd, the mob, and the antithesis of individuality.
Bo, you rock!
Um, thanks. 😉
Later, Bo, when in front of a ‘puter, instead of this infernal cell phone, I want to share some thoughts as to why the immense facination with zeepoc. I think we will overlap some .
Bo! That is way deep!! I get you now and agree that the Z genre does beautifully represent the need to prepare. Worst case senario is best practiced with an impossible case and I agree that zeds fill that need as a blank canvas.
Kudos!
Im a zombiologist my self, and i think that this is one of the most realistic zombie stories ive ever heard. (well except for the fact that those robbers had mp5’s, where do u get an mp5?)
Those guys were escaped convicts; those MP5s were “liberated” from the guards.
ah, thanks dave
In my zombiverse, zees:
1. Are reanimated corpses
2. Etiology (point of origin) can be:
A) Science gone bad
B) Natural Causes, eg. Mutated virus (black plague, leprosy, etc.)
C) Good all fashioned voodoo hoodoo that you do
3. Zombie Brain Functioning a huge determinant:
A) Brain, along with body was dead
B) Somehow, the dead brain was reanimated
C) The brain is damaged (oxygen depletion, necrosis, etc.)
D) Brain is functioning at minimum capacity. Enough for. Primitive ambulatory functios
E) my guess is that the amygdala & other “primitive” brain (lymbic system) are all that’s mostly working
F) That is, enough to keep the body animated and autonomically focused on basic survival, in this case, seeking food sources.
4. My guess is that they would eat any form of flesh in general, but that human consumption , quite bluntly, is the easiest prey
5. Re: doorknobs & such, not so much any form of conscious recognition (higher brain functioing), but more of a Body & Muscle Memory kind of thing
Sorry about typos! New phone + piggy fingers.
Interesting regarding lower brain function. I’ll have to ponder on that some more before I can write up a decent reply; but I am thinking upon the subject.
Thanks.
“Food for thought; thought from food”
Definitely a well-thought through reply, Luis. We’re of similar mind when it comes to the zeds.
Dave, 1st panel. One of my kids and my favorite cliches is the old, “This isn’t a movie/book, this is real Life!!” 😀
Awesome!
If your looking for the most canon zombie info in the world. Watch this here video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA&ob=av2n
Can’t get any more accurate then that.
Yeesh. SCARY!
not nearly as scary as this.
http://youtu.be/oHg5SJYRHA0
almost as informative, just presented in a better way.
Well played, both of you.
i dont know why, but ive always liked the jerks in shows or comics, like bart simpson, and stewie griffin, or stewart from this. is the something wrong with me?
hey dave, i know the awnser to your ”smart zombie” question, and the awnser is yes and no, the zombie has to see enough people (alive) opening doors. so when a zombie shows up at your door, dont go through the back door, stay inside and lock everything there is.
I like how Stew thinks that Sam getting grabbed is like something out of a movie, when he’s been spending the day caving in zombie skulls.